Diamond grading reports (GIA, IGI and others): answers from a diamond dealer

Of course, you should include the GIA report. You'll save the cost of replacing it, as said. But more importantly, it will cut off any argument about what quality the stone is. If you don't have a GIA report, and you tell the jeweler the stone is G VS2 (for example), he'll have to hedge his bet and will be thinking, "well, it could be G VS2, or GIA could say H SI1, so I'd better offer a lower price to protect myself." But if you have the GIA report, there's nothing to argue about. The stone is what it is.

I have definitely seen 3 grade discrepancies. It's not uncommon. I have also seen plenty of stones where the grades were much closer. IGI grading isn't as strict, and it isn't as consistent.

My advice is that if you're going to buy an IGI, make sure an expert proxy evaluates it for you. They are not created equal. It is well known that there are different production qualities of LGs and the lower tiers are usually sent to IGI -, worse, graded by the grower and rubber stamped at an "IGI Mobile Lab." So, with IGI, you might get a lovely stone, you might not. You need to inspect it to be sure.

And guess what? If you're shopping at one of the ultra low price sites, you're looking at the lowest tier of production quality. And if you're shopping on a premium site... Doesn't guarantee better, but it helps. It is certainly possible to find a beautiful and correctly graded IGI stone, but it takes work.

For a stone like this, I'd talk with a dealer. You're not going to have the best success online. It's not just about the discount! It's about finding the stone that looks "better than the paperwork." There's a lot more to a diamond than what's on the report. Sorting the ones that really dazzle from the ones that look good on paper but are just so so in real life is where you'll benefit. And in the end, that saves you money. Working with an expert ensures you get the best possible stone, nit just the best GIA report.

I have posted extensively on this topic. Check my post history!

It's really impossible to say without seeing the stone. A few I1s are nice looking in person, but the vast majority have obvious flaws to the naked eye. Also, there are dozens (hundreds?) of different facet patterns in cushion cuts, and the differences really make a huge impact in the appearance of the stone.

Do you have any photos you can post? GIA report? Any other details?

What kind of setting do you have in mind? Where are you located?

GIA is considered the gold standard for diamond grading. Each (reputable) lab has arrived independently at their grading standards for color, clarity, and cut. Some labs (GCAL, for example) focus extensively on the nuances of cut, whereas others (like GIA) don't provide as much detail in an attempt to simplify things for the consumer.

It's tempting to think that whoever provides more details is "better," but that isn't so. GIA maintains the strictest standards on color and clarity grading, and their assessment is considered definitive. As for the fine details of cut, I would encourage you to examine a few GIA XXX stones next to, for example, a GCAL 8x, and see how much of a difference you can actually see with your eyes. It might not be as big a deal as you think!

AGS doesn't exist any more (GIA bought AGS and shut down the lab, incorporating much of their technology into GIA's grading). As for GCAL, it gives you more precise measurements... But I really don't think that adds much value for 99% of people. I know there's a tendency among analytical shoppers to scrutinize the minutiae of cut, but in the real world the difference between 34.3% and 34.4% crown angle means nothing. You'll never see it. Sure, it's nice to have, but I would warn you to mentally differentiate between information and knowledge.

The downside to GCAL is really just market based. GCAL stones tend to be very expensive, and it's hard to justify paying more for GCAL than GIA.

Absolutely not. There are several issues with the diamond:

1. It's IGI graded, not GIA. IGI is significantly more lax than GIA in their color grading, and that's on display here. How in the world did they call that H color? It looks like K/L in the photos. WAY off.

Stick with GIA certified stones.

1. VVS clarity is overkill for most people. You can easily reduce the clarity and never see the difference. VS2/SI1 is the sweet spot for 99% of people.

1. That's a very delicate setting. If you like that design, I'd strongly encourage you to have someone else make it rather than JA. Their rings are mass produced to a relatively low standard, and they are notorious for structural issues.

You have a very healthy budget, and can definitely get a lovely ring for it. This just isn't it.

Have you looked at any stones in real life, or just online? Where are you located?

IGI is much less strict in their grading than GIA. Think of it as the difference between getting straight As at Harvard vs. at community college.

And there's a lot more to a diamond than just the 4 Cs. Model, bow tie, fluorescence, overtone, luster... None of these are factored into the 4 Cs. There's a reason people make a career out of assessing diamonds. This stuff is complicated!

Go on JA or BN and search for 1.50 OV I SI1. Look at the price difference between the cheapest and the most expensive. Why is there such a big range? If they were all the same shouldn't they all cost the same? No, because diamonds aren't fungible like that.

What certificate number do you have? What I'm looking for is a report from an independent gem lab as to the quality of the stone. Based on the information in the appraisal (non-specific color grade), I suspect the stone is not certified. If that's the case, you should have the stone removed from the setting and sent to GIA for a proper report. Once you have that, we can give you a sense of the value of the stone.

You won't get much for the setting. Most of the cost of it was the design and labor, and that can't be recouped. It'll have to be melted, so you're selling at as scrap.

I'm sorry to tell you, but it's worthless. Treat the report as toilet paper.

But I doubt you were sold an LG as a natural. It does happen, but it's extremely rare.

If you want to be sure, send the stone to GIA for a new report. That will give you piece of mind. But we warned, the grade will come back FAR lower than what GSI said, and you will wind up being pissed to learn that you did in fact massively overpay. There's only one reason anyone uses GSI reports - to inflate the grades.

Really sorry to bear bad news.

There are lots of ways. In addition to the inscription (not every diamond has one, but many do), you can compare measurements, facet patterns, color, etc. against the certificate.

But there's a much simpler way to be confident. Work with a trusted jeweler! Find a jeweler with good reviews, who gives you a sense that he/she is honest, expert, and candid. If you don't trust your jeweler, don't buy there, no matter what the paperwork says. And if you do trust your jeweler - trust your jeweler!

Actually, the older certificate might be a good thing. Many experts (myself included) have observed that over the years, GIA's standards have become less stringent. So, the older certificate might actually be graded to a higher standard than the stone will be graded today.

Rather than asking the jeweler to update the existing certificate, I recommend you ask him or her to send it to GIA as though it had never been certified at all. Let's see what they say today. It may work out to your advantage. Just make sure you finalize the price with the jeweler first! In my humble opinion, the stone is a bit overpriced.

Dealers do this all the time, when we are unhappy with the results GIA gives us. Remember, GIA isn't some all-knowing all seeing God - it's a bunch of people sitting in a room looking at diamonds. Sometimes they get it wrong. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a result from GIA, taken a look at it, decided it was nonsense, and thrown it in the trash. Then three weeks later I sent the same stone again and get a totally different result.

Me too! But an engagement ring is a powerful symbol, and traditionally, enduring value is a part of that.

LG prices aren't that low (yet) if you compare apples to apples. Remember, IGI certificates are NOT equivalent to GIA. Typically they're 60-70% of natural. It's just not enough of a discount to be compelling. And, again, an engagement ring is supposed to be valuable. If LG stones were $2, would anyone really want to be proposed to with a $2 ring?

Sounds like a serious ring! Don't sell it just yet. First, get the diamond properly graded. Send it to GIA for a report. This will cost you some money, but it's well worth it. This way you will know exactly what the properties of the stone are - jewelers will trust the GIA grading.

Then, go into a jeweler, show him the ring and paperwork, and tell him you want to BUY one just like it. Tell him it's your mom's and your GF wants an identical one or something. Basically, get him to quote you on getting as similar a ring as possible. Once you have that number, take off 30% or so (jeweler's profit), and you have a starting point to ask for from someone else.

You won't do well just showing them the ring and saying "how much will you give me for this?" Do some homework and have an asking price. You'll get better results.

Where are you located?

Congratulations on all these huge milestones in your life! Wow, that's a lot at once!

No, it won't look too small. Don't worry. I'd actually recommend the 2mm over the 1.5mm. In my experience, rings less than 1.7mm wide are often susceptible to bending, warping, or cracking, and they're just not durable enough (which is a shame, since they can look so nice!).

Well, at the end of the day, more is more, so if size is a priority, then sure, you should do that. On the other hand, price relates to size EXPONENTIALLY, so the more carat weight you get, the more painful the numbers will be. The size difference between 0.90 carats and 1.20 is significant. Between 0.90 and 1, maybe not so much.

Never mind the formal grading for a minute - think about it in practical terms. Look for a stone that's white enough it won't look yellow or dingy, that's clean enough that no inclusions bother your naked eye (it doesn't have to be microscopically clean!), and that's well cut so it sparkles like it should. What grades does that mean? It varies for each individual! Look at a bunch of stones and see what YOUR tolerances are!

Not necessarily... But you need to understand what you're buying. IGI's grading standard (and AGS's, and EGL's) is different from GIA's. Most experts agree that GIA has the most strict grading, so you wouldn't expect an IGI H color (for example) to be as white as a GIA H color. But you also wouldn't expect to PAY the same for it. So, if you're buying an IGI stone, make sure you're paying the IGI price - don't pay GIA price for IGI stones (or AGS, EGL, etc.). Does that make sense?

Look for a stone with good proportions (square, not rectangular, not too deep or shallow), and avoid a girdle that's extremely thick (makes the stone look smaller and reduces light performance) or thin (makes the corners very vulnerable to chipping). You can google the "ideal" specs for a princess cut all day long and hear a hundred different "experts" insisting their formula, or their "super ideal" cut is best, but at the end of the day, you need to look at some actual stones (in real life if possible, via an expert proxy if not) and see what looks best TO YOU.

Again, congratulations, and good luck!

No, I haven't dealt with them. I'm a wholesaler, and I deal with high end independent jewelers, and private clients (a LOT of redditors, lately!).

What this means is that IDNID has someone on staff whose job it is to look at the stone, look at the certificate, and make sure the two match. In other words, he's answering "is this the stone described in the certificate?" He's NOT answering "is this a good stone?" or "Is this a good price for the stone?" or "Is this I color closer to an H or to a J?" He's just making sure that the measurements, inclusions, etc. match the paperwork the seller provided.

So it's not really a matter of being trusting or not - it's a matter of understanding what service IDNID is providing, and accepting (or not) the inherent limitations of that service.

A GIA certificate is NOT a guarantee of "non-shoddiness." I can't tell you how many times I've seen two stones side by side with virtually identical certificates and very different real-world appearance.

I really recommend you get your stone and setting from the same source. That way, if there is any problem, you have one jeweler to work with to resolve it, not two. Also, this ensures that any small diamonds in your setting match in color and overtone to your center, which is VERY important in making the ring look cohesive and beautiful.

They're not inherently pulling a fast one on you here. There's nothing wrong with EGL USA stones (and make SURE they're EGL USA, NOT international!). I made a video explaining this issue:

https://youtu.be/utrliAZu2lI

However, there are some other things at play here that make me think shady stuff might be going on. They are giving you incomplete information about the EGL stones, which tells me they may be hiding something. Can you ask them for complete certificates? If so, please post them here.

Where are you located?

This is a typical "feel-good" appraisal. It's designed to give you confidence in what you just bought, not to be a real estimate of value. You can certainly use it for insurance purposes, but you'll wind up overpaying on your premium.

Practically, this might be what you would pay at a super high-end retailer (Tiffany, Harry Winston, etc.)... But who cares about that?

I would go and ask for a "replacement value" appraisal, rather than a retail appraisal, so you don't have to pay so much insurance premium.

The "Signature Ideal" phrase is pure marketing. When it comes to cut, there's really only one way to evaluate it - with YOUR OWN two eyes. It really doesn't matter at the end of the day what GIA, or GCAL, or Blue Nile says - all that matters is what YOU see.

If at all possible, go SEE some diamonds before you buy. You should be able to look at your stone with your own two eyes and decide if it speaks to you.

Where are you located?

As for your ring, the appraised value probably won't mean much, since these appraisals are generally designed more to make you feel good than to give you an actual idea of value. If you doubt me on this, try this experiment: go to whoever did the appraisal and ask them if they will BUY the ring for that amount. Or 10% less. Or 20%. Trust me, they won't.

The only appraisal that means anything is one with a check attached.

That said, the appraisal will give you a starting point in terms of diamond quality, size, etc. Use that info, list online, and keep your fingers crossed.

Or, you can come see me or someone like me, and I'll give you a realistic cash offer any time.

I think it's great that you've done so much online research, but have you actually looked at any diamonds in real life? IMHO there is much much more to a diamond than you can ever see on a grading report. I've seen diamonds that we're supposedly "perfect" that just didn't have brilliance, and I've seen diamonds with so-so paperwork that were gorgeous in the flesh.

No matter what you choose, make sure you actually see it first, and compare several stones face to face.