Cut and the 4Cs: answers from a diamond dealer (page 1 of 5)

Here are a few questions a customer jeweler will (or should) ask. If you know the answer to these, you're off to a good start!

1. What shape of diamond do you have in mind?

1. Natural or lab grown?

1. What color of metal would you like? Some stones go better with some colors of gold than others!

1. Would you prefer a simple, minimalist setting, or something more elaborate?

1. What's your budget?

1. What's your schedule? When do you want to make sure you have a ring ready by?

I hope that helps!

These are all massive overkill IMHO. I totally get "just sliding the slider all the way to the best one," but there are lots of ways to define "best one!" For example, perhaps your partner would prefer a stone with more modest specs, but much larger (just an example - obviously I have no idea what you guys would want!)?

In particular, Flawless clarity is way more than you need. Over about a VS2, it's essentially impossible to tell the difference without magnification, so why spend the money on a difference you need special tools to even see?

Instead, I'd focus on getting a very well cut stone (because this is what makes diamonds sparkle!) with terrific color (let's say F or better as a starting point), and VS2 or better clarity. Then see how large a stone your budget will allow and decide if that's too much. If it is, scale it down a bit and save some money!

Have you looked at any diamonds in real life, or just online? Where are you located?

I'll take the contrarian position to many here on this sub... You saw the stone, and you loved it! It has the highest cut grade possible from the most respected authority on diamond grading in the world. Yes, there are "super duper mega ultra ideal" cuts out there, but you'll pay a hefty premium, and once the ring has been on her finger for a day or two (and therefore isn't perfectly clean and in a hermetically sealed box) nobody can tell any difference. So, don't pay an extra 25% to get an extra 0.5% "sparkliness."

If you want to get a better stone (not that I think you need to!), your money would be better spent on larger size or higher color than on further optimizing cut beyond here. Yes, cut is important, but there's a point of diminishing returns, and you're there.

So, if I were you I'd declare victory and go propose! And if you really want to take it up a notch, go for higher color or larger size. 99.99% of people will notice those differences FAR more than subtle variations in cut.

I disagree. Color affects the sparkle of a stone much more than clarity as long as the stone is eye clean, and many SI1 stones are eye clean.

Sparkle comes first from cut, then from color, and lastly from clarity. In fact, as long as the stone is eye clean (no visible inclusions to the naked eye), clarity doesn't affect sparkle at all.

As for looking just below 2 ct, that could be good advice, so long as OP doesn't wind up with too shallow a cut, which would sacrifice sparkle.

OP, I hope that helps!

Go look at some stones in real life. Figure out what the minimum color and clarity are for YOU. This varies widely person to person. Don't sacrifice on cut, but at the same time, recognize that there are diminishing returns on it at some point, so don't overspend for branded or "super duper mega ideal" cuts.

If this stuff is intimidating or stressful for you, enlist an expert (dealer or private jeweler) to help you. Often these services cost you nothing, and wind up saving you money by finding you a stone with better value than you can find for yourself.

Have you looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

I would say that yes, color matters, but clarity less so. You definitely don't need IF stones for a necklace (or, honestly, for anything else either!).

Focus on white, eye clean stones that are well cut. Really, the cut of the stones matters more than anything else for a necklace like this, as that's what creates the sparkle. This is where BN and the like fall down. They'll use decent color/clarity stones, but garbage cuts in necklaces, hoops, tennis bracelets, etc. So the pieces wind up looking lifeless.

For now, never mind buying - I'm talking about LOOKING. So you can see what's important to YOU. For example, do you really need a VVS? Maybe you can't tell any difference between VS2 and VVS1 (most people can't!)? And if that's the case, why pay for it? Same goes for colors, and even cuts - don't pay for differences you can't see!

From my experience (working with diamonds 20 years, made 10k+ engagement rings), the vast majority of people would rather have a larger, slightly "less perfect" stone for the same budget as a smaller "super duper ultra mega extra fabulicious ideal" stone.

OK, that's a good start!

As for color and clarity, you're certainly safe in F+, VVS... But it may not be necessary. You need a microscope to differentiate between VS and VVS stones, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to pay extra for VVS. With LG stone, it might be a very small premium (so it's no big deal), but if it's a substantial difference, don't bother.

What shape are you looking for? What kind of setting do you have in mind?

OK, how about between H and I? I and J? How low did you go before you saw too much color?

If you're fine with these colors, even better. As a rule of thumb, every color you go down will save you 15% or so.

So maybe you should be looking for an H/I VS2 or SI1. You'll save a ton of money, and could go bigger - or just keep the change in your pocket!

What you shouldn't compromise on is cut. If an oval isn't cut right, you can get severe bow tie effect and kill the sparkle. And if a diamond doesn't sparkle, what's the point?

First of all, no one here is going to call you dumb! I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm sure I couldn't step in and do your job either!

Those stones are all very similar on paper, and have a similar look in the videos. They all show evidence of strain during the growth process, with significant graining and wisps. I'm honestly surprised they're all looking this way. Look at the facets under the table (the center part of the stone). You see how they look a bit textured? They really shouldn't - they should be mirror smooth.

I'm pretty surprised they all look like this, to the point where I'm wondering if it's just something odd with Ritani's camera settings or something...

Up until relatively recently, laser inscription wasn't even an option! So stones were matched to their reports the old fashioned way - by comparing the listed weight, measurements, color, clarity, and inclusion plot against the actual stone.

Now, would that guarantee that it was the same stone? I suppose not. You could have two diamonds with identical weight, measurements, color, clarity, and inclusions... But if you did, I guess it wouldn't matter which stone went with the report!

Nowadays it's more common to have stones inscribed than not, but it still happens. And if your stone has an older report, there's a good chance it's not inscribed.

In my experience, people who buy highly fluorescent stones like them... Until a few months go by and their fiancees start complaining that they "can't get the ring clean" and it "isn't shiny." These differences become very noticeable by comparison - and people DO compare their rings with each other.

So, if you want to go ahead and buy the fluorescent stones, go for it. Maybe you won't notice the difference or care. But they're cheap for a reason, and I think you'd do better compromising someplace else (VS1 clarity is overkill, for example) and avoiding this issue.

This isn't just something you can read off the report. There are different facet patterns and distributions for radiants, as well as different L/W ratios that reflect what's desirable for depth, table, etc. Basically there are a lot of interdependent variables. That's why there's no easy way to issue a cut grade!

So what do you do? If at all possible, look at a bunch of different stones. See what looks good to YOU. There's no universal standard to adhere to here (although of course some cuts are objectively better than others!), so choose based on your own personal taste.

Where are you located?

This is a very poor VS2, and will likely not be eye clean. That's why it's so cheap.

I'd say most SI1s are actually cleaner than this. That's a crazy grade IMHO.

Regardless of where you choose to eventually buy, yes, you should definitely go to the diamond district and look at stones. You will be amazed at what you can see - and what you can't! Go see what colors look white to YOU, what clarities look clean to YOU, what differences in cut YOU can see, etc. It's worth the time!

I wouldn't be worried about an I color. Usually they're nice. And while clarity is important I'm emerald cuts, VVS may be overkill. Look for a nice VS stone that's clean to the eye.

As with all shapes, cut is the most important of the 4 Cs. This is what will make the stone look lively, or not. Look for a really well cut stone (no windowing or dark spots, nice even facets, great symmetry, etc.).

Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

That is the definition of "too good to be true." A true 1ct FSI2, with even a decent cut, is a $5k+ stone these days, at minimum. And that's giving no value to the setting whatsoever. So, why would a jeweler sell you a $7k ring (let's say) for $2,200? He wouldn't. Nobody gives away something for nothing.

I have a feeling you already know this - you are asking what the catch is. The catch is that something about that stone isn't legit. My guess? It's "clarity enhanced."

Post the certificate and we can all tell you more.

Unfortunately, videos taken under jewelry store "dazzle" lights aren't that useful. That lighting is designed to enhance diamond color, so it's not a true perspective.

I did a bit of checking around, and you're overpaying at $47k for that stone. Similar stones area available for thousands less. And if you made some smart compromises (like reducing clarity just a bit), you could get into a J or possibly an I for the same budget.

What kind of setting do you have in mind? Where are you located?

A lot of the more numbers focused consumers will tell you that a "60/60 stone" isn't good enough - it's the older standard of the ideal cut, and the "super ideal" crowd doesn't like them much. But I think they have merit. You do lose a tiny bit of scintillation vs. a higher depth, but you gain some brilliance, and get a larger diameter. So, don't be afraid of a 60/60 if you like the look!

The price is reasonable if it's a good G color and a nice stone. Do you have any photos? What kind of setting do you have in mind?

I'd be looking for something white enough to look totally white to your naked eye (I'd show you a few different colors to gauge your sensitivity), something eye clean (this can be achieved well below the VS1 level to save you some money, and again, I'd show you a few to see where it became noticeable to you), and something really well cut. Once I dial in those parameters, I'd work backwards to find the biggest stone I can in your budget.

Getting you something 1.70+ should be totally doable. Maybe even 2ct if you're not too picky about color.

Great question!

When I look at that photo, I see flashes of white, grey, and blue - but not really any other colors. A diamond should show you the whole rainbow, and should scintillate across the visible spectrum. The problem with heavily fluorescent stones is that all that blue light pouring out of them can overwhelm the scintillation, so your eye can't pick it up - all you see is blue.

The net result is that the diamond looks a bit like someone smudged it up with fingerprints or something. It just looks muted, hazy, and dull. And if a diamond doesn't sparkle, what's the point?

This isn't the way I would spend $13k on a 1.5ct oval. At that price point, there are much better options available.

Were you able to compare that stone against others?

I think the best place to optimize from here would be to reduce the clarity a bit, and either save some money, or spend it on size. What you've got here seems like a good stone, but VVS is overkill for most people, so you're leaving money on the table by going that high. VS2 or SI1 is the sweet spot for most people. You'll never see the difference with the naked eye. Remember, these stones are the size of peas in real life, so inclusions that look huge in super zoomed pictures are totally invisible in real life.

Good luck!

FYI, professionals don't use these tools. I have bought and sold tens of thousands of diamonds. In my career, I have ever asked to see an ASET or idealscope image, nor have I ever been asked for one by a professional.

These tools are designed to drive wedges between otherwise similar stones, to convince consumers that only "super ultra mega ideal cut" stones are worth buying. They create false doubt, and supply false confidence.

You already have two excellent tools for evaluating a diamond's performance - one on either side of your nose. Don't stress too much about these images. After all, if the pros don't need them, maybe you don't either.

The F is cheap because the clarity grade is based on clouds throughout the stone. The whole stone is very hazy. If a diamond doesn't sparkle, what's the point?

As for the J, it's brown. If you're setting in rose gold, that's no big deal, but in white or yellow you'll see it. So you have to be OK with that. Also, it has strong fluorescence, which may make it look cloudy as well. You'd have to inspect it in person to see.

Either way, there are better options than these at this price point.

The Tiffany 6 prong is a classic! Thankfully, it's far from unique to Tiffany. That IP expired long ago, and virtually every jeweler makes their version of it.

As for best value at your price point, I'd be looking for a F-H SI that's eye clean, and go as big as you can for the money. At the top of your budget, 1.5 carats is achievable.

For reference, I have a 1.20 F SI2 that's eye clean, and it's thousands less than this price range.

OK, cut is certainly important! But there is a point of diminishing returns. At this price point, I think you'd get more perceived value in a larger stone with still awesome cut. Get a GIA X cut and you're going to be happy with it, but don't waste money on "Astor" or other branded cuts. You'd just be paying a markup for a brand nobody cares about.

Have you actually looked at any diamonds in real life? Some of the finer points about cut angles, etc. that folks on this sub and elsewhere describe as "life or death" are pretty darn difficult to distinguish IRL, even for pros.

If you can't see the difference, why pay for it?