Cut and the 4Cs: answers from a diamond dealer (page 2 of 5)

This is a common scenario for analytical online shoppers. I've seen this a million times before.

Remember, at the end of the day, you're buying a shiny rock. It doesn't have "features." It doesn't have "performance." It doesn't DO anything. It's only job is to be beautiful, and the only person who judges how beautiful it is is YOU.

Of course, all the numbers and parameters matter, but I urge you to stop obsessing about what you're "supposed to" like, and focus on what you DO like.

I've had many clients opt for a less than ideal cut, because they decided they valued other things (size, color, price) more. And that's OK! If knowing the stone is perfectly cut is important to you, even if you can't visually tell the difference, then that's OK too!

The important thing is that you get something YOU love.

You've heard a bunch of advice on cut already, so let me just rattle off a few other things pros consider when buying a stone.

-Fluorescence - affects both appearance and value

-Overtone - brown/green overtone is less desirable than yellow

-Luster - some material has microscopic air bubbles in it that slightly reduces transparency, making the stone less vibrant

-Inclusion type - not all VS2s (or whatever) are created equal! You have to judge stone by stone

-Girdle thickness - too thin can be fragile, too thick messes with the optics and adds extra weight without adding size

There's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

I see you've done a lot of online research, but have you looked at any actual stones in real life? You might find that you're happy to reduce the clarity - over SI1 or VS2, most people can't tell any difference. And that savings could help you go bigger - or just leave you with some money in your pocket.

Be on the lookout for other gotchas - fluorescence, cloudiness, brown overtones, etc. There's a lot more to a diamond than just the 4 Cs.

Good luck!

VS1 is a really high clarity - almost indistinguishable from IF without a microscope. You can safely go lower, so long as the diamond remains clean to the naked eye.

As for the D color, it's undeniably awesome. But I would urge you to compare it against (say) an F color and see if YOU can see the difference. I can easily tell... But I do this for a living, and many people can't. So, if you can't tell, you shouldn't pay the premium for it.

Well, there are plenty of options there! Take a walk around 47th Street and see what you see. It will feel like trying to take a sip from a firehose, so make sure you go with an "I'm just looking" mentality. But try to see different colors, clarities, and cuts. See what YOU notice. Maybe you can compare an excellent cut against a VG against a G. Maybe G color vs. I color. SI2 vs VS1. Try to see what YOU notice.

Unfortunately there's no simple answer tk thst question. If there was, it would be common knowledge.

The various variables of cut in these shapes are interdependent in complex ways, and can't be reduced to a chart like you're looking for.

So how do you know if a fancy cut stone is cut well? You get expert help! Work with a jeweler with a lot of experience with these shapes. I literally don't know how many thousands of ovals, cushions, etc. I've examined in my career at this point, but evaluating the cut becomes instinct at some point. I just look at the stone and know.

Nobody uses the 10ct list. All stones over 5ct are priced on the 5ct list. Very large stones just have less of a discount, and 20ct (for example) would typically be priced well over list. It would be expected for a super large stone to be +100 or more.

Fancy colors don't have a list at all. They are priced based on precedent and the judgment of the owner. After all, the owner can ask whatever he wants! People will either pay it or not.

Thanks for thinking of me!

OP, yes, cut is the most important of the 4 Cs. But, as with so many things, you have to consider diminishing returns.

Put it this way - if making a diamond "1% sparklier" costs 30% more, that's not a good way to spend the money! Spend it on higher color or larger size instead - you'll get more visual appeal for those.

Remember to always consider the FIFTH C - cost!

Also, "true hearts" is not a gemological term - it's a marketing term. It's literally meaningless.

TL;DR: Don't buy a clarity enhanced stone.

Clarity enhanced diamonds are diamonds that have been treated chemically or mechanically to improve their appearance. Some stones are drilled with lasers and then dipped in hot acid to bleach black inclusions to white, which improve the diamonds' appearance. Other diamonds are filled with silicone to fill in crevices and cracks that are unappealing and reduce their negative effects visually. However, these diamonds are still actually low in quality they've just had "makeup" put on them to improve their visual appearance - their value remains extremely low.

Furthermore, the secondary market for clarity enhanced diamonds is virtually nonexistent. You will have a very difficult time selling the stone should you ever desire to do so for trade-in purposes or any other reason.

Candidly, if you're thinking about getting a clarity enhanced diamond you would probably be better off with a lab-grown diamond, and that's coming from a guy who's not a big fan of lab-grown.

This is going to be a really nice ring!

No, don't trade lower color for clarity. You'll get no practical benefit. If anything, trade lower color for size! Look for a bigger F or G VS2 or SI1 and see how much bigger you can go.

Will you be able to see the difference between D and G? I don't know! Some people are more color sensitive than others. The only way to find out is to compare some stones in real life. Can you easily do that? Where are you located?

Well, it is a factor to a certain extent, since larger diamonds will have longer ray paths for the light, which allows the light to encounter more nitrogen and "pick up" more yellow as it passes. So a 5 carat I color might look a little darker than a 1/2 carat I color. But this is a minor factor compared to the relative body color of the stones.

And either way, a good jeweler will compare side by side and compensate for this.

At this size, yes, you can spend less. Or, if you want to spend $20k, you can go bigger.

The obvious place to save money is clarity. You don't need a VVS. You can easily reduce it to VS2 or SI1 and never see the difference with the naked eye. But your wallet sure will!

Also, don't pay a premium for "Astor Ideal" or whatever garbage BN/JA are using for marketing terms these days. That's meaningless. Focus on proper proportions and numbers, and leave the arbitrary brand names alone. They add $0 in value to the stone.

The little diamonds in a pave band aren't individually graded - it would be cost prohibitive to do that. But they are sorted into parcels, which are "calibrated" (precisely matched by size and color), and sorted by clarity. So, when a client chooses a center stone, I compare it against different parcels I have (there are literally hundreds of different parcels by size, shape, color, etc.) and find the closest match, so that the piece looks like a cohesive whole.

This is a major reason why I advocate against buying pre-fab rings from the big box stores or sites. Those rings are made with whatever stones the manufacturer chose, without regard to what center stone will be set there eventually. So they won't match. That's a deal-breaker IMHO.

They are the Walmart and Target of diamonds online. They're certainly reputable, but not the ideal way to get the best quality. And their settings are mass produced overseas, and really not well made.

Shop for a jeweler, not just for a stone. Ask yourself, is the person I'm working with an expert? Is he honest? Candid? Does he warranty his work? What reviews are out there?

Sounds like some basic diamond education might help. Start here:

https://youtu.be/6S9Y2gSxEgM

NO. You can go much lower and never see the difference. Somewhere in the VS2-SI2 range works for most people.

I have posted very extensively about this stuff. Check my post history!

Good luck!

Congratulations!

Unfortunately I do see some issues. IGI isn't as strict as GIA on color, so this is probably a GIA K. And in emerald cut, color tends to show.

Also, that extra depth isn't just a freebie. It affects the optics of the stone, diminishing the light return.

That said, it's the right price for the stone as it is.

I am a bit concerned about the setting too. JA mass produces their settings overseas, so the side stones will be selected without reference to your chosen center stone. It's likely they won't match in color, and that cheapens the look of the ring.

Sorry to be less than effusive... But I thought you should know.

Got it.

Obviously I'm biased, but I would definitely recommend going wholesale. Not only will you get much better pricing, but a dealer will be a specialist, and will have much more knowledge about diamonds. A retailer has to be a generalist, knowing a little about diamonds, a bit about sapphires, rubies emeralds, pearls, watches, etc. A diamond dealer works exclusively in diamonds, and will have better understanding.

Marquise cuts in particular are very tricky. There's a lot to know about this cut. So, the more expertise, the better.

I have posted extensively on this topic. Check my post history!

Well, let's assume they're at least VS in clarity (which makes sense for EC), well cut, minimal fluorescence, GIA certified. $500-600 per stone or so would make sense (assuming you can find 28 such stones that all match!). So that means the diamonds will be $14-17k. Add in the platinum, design, and labor, and I'd say somewhere around $19-20k for the piece is logical. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it's more. You may have to have stones cut to match, and that costs money (both materials and labor!).

Ovals are extremely tricky to buy, especially online. There are many interdependent variables affecting the look of the stone.

Before you start shopping seriously anywhere, I strongly recommend you go and look at a few stones in real life. What colors and clarities are noticeable to you? What about the cut? Do you prefer more elongated or more rounded? Larger tables or smaller? There's a lot to see and know.

Once you've done that, you'll have a basis to look online and know what matters to you and what doesn't.

Good luck!

It means the diamond is a bit more "tall and skinny" than it should be. This has two negative consequences:

1. The light performance will be less than ideal.
2. It will look a bit smaller than it actually is.

At the end of the day, cut is what makes the diamond sparkle. Don't compromise on this. And if you don't know what this stuff is, I'd recommend you educate yourself a little more before spending $10k!

Start here: https://youtu.be/6S9Y2gSxEgM

I wouldn't buy a D color with significant fluorescence without seeing it in person and comparing it against non-fluorescent stones. Put it this way - if you buy a stone that's 10% less sparkly than it should be, and you can't compare against others, would you notice? Or would it seem fine u til 2 months from now, when your fiancee compares her ring to her BFFs and keeps trying to clean it, wondering why it isn't sparkling like hers is?

Just avoid it.

No, there's no need to go VVS. Waste of money.

Sure! It means just what it sounds like - a stone that has no visible inclusions to the naked eye. A diamond doesn't have to be microscopically flawless to look clean to the unaided eye! For most people, VS2 or SI1 (or a good SI2!) is plenty.

For reference, my wife wears an SI2, and I do this for a living!

I think you're watching the wrong videos. Maybe this will help:

https://youtu.be/6S9Y2gSxEgM

IF is almost certainly overkill - reduce the clarity, and you can save some money, or get a bigger stone!

And yes, in yellow gold, you probably don't need a D-F color (though they are certainly beautiful!). Look at G-J.

I see people saying this a lot, and I don't know where it comes from! White gold is not stronger than yellow gold (assuming equivalent purity - 18k vs 18k, for example). And if you use yellow prongs, you can use a lower color diamond (the eye will be less able to perceive the color due to lack of contrast).

Personally, I think settings are more beautiful and natural looking when the prongs are the same color as the shank. But that's a personal opinion, not a professional one.

I hope that helps!

XXX refers to a stone getting the grade of "excellent" (the highest possible grade) in cut, polish, and symmetry - the three aspects of cut that GIA rates. Basically, as far as cut goes, this stone is a "straight A student."

The D color grade is totally independent of this. D is the highest color grade possible, though, so another A for the stone!

But there's more to know! What's the clarity? Does it have fluorescence? Is it GIA certified? Size? Price? Have you seen it in real life?

Honestly, the ratings aren't terribly useful for ovals. There isn't a cut grade issued, in part because they are so complicated.

The cut of an oval is determined by interdependent variables, including length/width ratio, curvature of the shape, total depth, table percentage, and girdle thickness (among others). Unfortunately, I can't give you a handy chart of values for these, because changing one (even within the ideal range) changes the desired value for the others!

So, I really do recommend expert help for this shape. There are few ways to get it right, and many ways to get it wrong.

Where are you located?

OK, there's a lot to unpack here. Let me try to tackle this for you.

Natural vs. synthetic vs. enhanced: Natural, for sure. No question. The other two retain approximately zero value. Natural diamonds actually do pretty well for this, IF you buy them right! In other words, if you go to Tiffany, you'll lose a lot of money in the future, because your cost basis was all wrong to begin with. But if you buy well, you can expect to hold value, and eventually increase it (if you look long term). Remember, unlike many other things you can buy, a diamond really will last your whole life and become a part of your estate plan one day.

We can debate the intrinsic value of diamonds all day long, but there's really no point. Human beings have agreed on the convention that real diamonds are worth money, and that convention has held for thousands of years. There's no reason to believe that will change any time soon.

4 Cs:

Cut: Focus on a GIA XXX cut. At this price point, there's no reason to go with any of the secondary labs. Get a GIA. And don't worry about "super, ultra, mega, extra" ideal cuts. They're really not a thing. GIA is widely considered the highest authority in diamond grading, so if they give it their seal of approval, you can relax and consider the job done. There are many others claiming their standards are better, higher, tighter than GIAs... And maybe they are. But there is a point of diminishing returns here, and it's not worth paying 30% more for ULTRA CUT that's maybe 0.2% more light return.

Color: This is really subjective. Some people are very sensitive to color, some aren't. My best advice is to go look at some stones, and see how low you can go before it starts to look dark to you. As a rule of thumb, one color grade costs about 15%, so bear in mind that jumping from an H to an E (for example) will be a 50% price increase or so.

Clarity: This is where you can save some money! VS1 is overkill for almost anyone. As long as a diamond is clean enough that no inclusions are visible to your naked eye, then by definition the inclusions aren't disrupting the flow of light, so who cares? Look at VS2 or SI1 and save big.

I'm not sure if this answers everything - feel free to ask any followup questions!

Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? I think it might really help you.

Where are you located?

Congratulations!

That's a lot of money - you can get something really awesome. I'd suggest you start with some education about the basics, so you can understand what drives a diamond's value. This might help (sorry about the shaky video - I need to record a new one!).

https://youtu.be/6S9Y2gSxEgM

In rectangular cuts, you'll be looking at emerald cut, radiant cut, or cushion cut. Have you seen any of those? They all are basically rectangular (or at least can be), but each has a unique look.

I have posted extensively about the diamond buying process. Check my post history!