Cut and the 4Cs: answers from a diamond dealer (page 3 of 5)

Not just that. The big box stores stock really low quality diamonds, with mass-produced settings made overseas to really low standards. It's just not quality, "engagement worthy" jewelry. Independent jewelers, however, work to create client relationships (at least good ones do!), so they will want your piece to be something you're proud of. It's usually made much better as a result.

Also, the "jewelers" at chain stores aren't really jewelers - they're salespeople. So if you have in-depth questions, they're just not qualified to answer them.

Of course, if you check my post history, you'll see that I think there are better alternatives than either chain stores or local people... But that's neither here nor there.

What kind of ring do you have in mind?

It depends on HOW the diamond is "poorly" cut. Some cuts are less than ideal because they're too SHALLOW - so they won't have ideal sparkle, but will look LARGER than an ideal cut of the same weight.

"Super Ideal" isn't a dirty word - it's a meaningless word. It's marketing fluff. In general, the industry accepts that GIA is the most stringent authority on diamond grading. If they call a stone XXX cut, you're good. Honestly. Don't make yourself crazy optimizing this to death. You'll just overpay for insignificant differences.

First of all, recognize that diamonds are a globally traded commodity, and the market is very efficient. There's a market price, and it won't be $2-3k for the kind of stone you're looking for just because you think it should. So I would start by managing your own expectations.

That said, there's no need for a VS1. Look at SI1 or so - in this size range, they will generally be eye-clean, which is all that matters.

As for color, go look at a bunch of stones and see how white it has to be to be white enough for you! Look and learn!

Good luck!

I think their depth for "super ideal" is higher than it needs to be. 59-60 depth are in many ways better than 61-62 - they lead to larger diameters.

In general, stick with GIA XXX and you'll be all good. Don't kill yourself over this. The difference between the "most super ideal" cut ever and the WORST GIA XXX ever is extremely small to the naked eye. Don't pay a 30% premium for less than 1% difference in light performance. Spend that money on higher color or bigger size instead, and you'll get much more value.

Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

First of all, that's a very sweet gesture for you to make to your wife.

I think you should look at lower clarities and higher colors. Cushions tend to show color more than other shapes, and in this size range you can probably safely look for a good SI1. It will still be clean to the eye. Lower color, on the other hand, is visible across the room.

Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

First of all, DON'T PANIC! And don't let the pricescope crowd drive you crazy. Don't get me wrong, cut is important, but there's an area of diminishing returns. Almost nobody can spot the difference between a "bad" XXX cut and the best "super duper ultra mega extra ideal" XXX cut. Just don't worry about this. You will see the extra size or color MUCH more easily.

It seems you already have the right instinct here. Don't ignore it!

Have you actually looked at stones in real life? I think it might really help you put your mind at ease.

Where are you located?

First of all, congratulations! Second, don't panic!

This look is totally achievable in your budget. You might even to go slightly larger if you make some smart choices. You definitely should get it custom made - it's very important that the side stones be matched to the center in color and presentation, so the whole ring looks cohesive.

I think a little education would benefit you tremendously. Start here:

https://youtu.be/6S9Y2gSxEgM

Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

There are several different kinds of clarity enhancements. They mostly fall into two categories: drilling and filling.

Drilling involves using a laser to drill a small hole in the stone, to reach a black inclusion inside. Then the stone is soaked in acid, which "bleaches" the inclusion white, making it less visible. This kind of treatment is irreversible; it's permanent.

Filling, on the other hand, involves using a material with somewhat similar optical properties to diamond (often silicone or glass) to fill a crevice inside the stone, lessening its appearance. These treatments are never perfect; a keen eye can spot them. But they do a good job of masking large inclusions and minimizing them. Unlike drilling, these treatments are often reversible - if the diamond is heated very hot (over 500 degrees), the silicone melts out and the diamond returns to its natural state.

Clarity enhancements are normally done only on very imperfect stones, to make them marketable. But it does NOT improve their inherent value. They're still very included stones, and should be priced as such (maybe plus a little for the cost of the treatment).

Note that these stones are nowhere near as marketable as natural diamonds; should you ever want to sell, you'll have a VERY hard time finding a buyer.

TL;DR: Clarity enhanced diamonds are the gemological equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. Don't do it.

GIA doesn't issue a formal cut grade for princess cuts - that "ideal" rating was literally generated by JA's marketing department. It's meaningless.

Look for something with lower total depth. I can't give you a specific number, because these variables are dependent on each other, and you need to look at a stone from a holistic perspective, rather than just focusing on one number. There really isn't a shortcut to diamond cut - it's an art as much as a science.

Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

OK. This might help. Start here:

https://youtu.be/6S9Y2gSxEgM

Now that you have some basic knowledge, go LOOK at some diamonds. See what you like and what you don't. See what colors look white to you, and which look yellow. See how low you can go in clarity before it bothers you. Learn your taste. And while you're at it, see which jewelers treat you like a friend, and which treat you like a mark.

THEN you can start shopping.

Trust me, it'll be time well spent.

There's a large diamond district in Chicago (Wabash and Madison). Start there!

Definitely go white gold, unless you have a specific reason to go with platinum (i.e. allergies). There's not much benefit to platinum in stud earrings.

At $5k, you can expect to get at least 0.80 each - maybe bigger. Look for I color or better, and SI2 is totally fine. Then it's up to you to trade color for size.

Have you actually tried any studs on in real life to see what size looks good on you? I'd really recommend doing so.

What is it with radiant cuts lately? I'm getting SO MANY requests for large radiants!

Some SI2s are eye clean, and some aren't. Unfortunately, I think both the stones you linked will fall into the latter category. The good news is that in your budget, you can easily get into SI1, and perhaps VS2.

As for color, every stone is different.. But radiants do tend to show color more than other cuts, so this is definitely worth watching out for. Have you actually looked at any stones in real life? It might help you to see what your personal color tolerance really is.

Yes, the fluorescence is affecting the luster of the stone. That's not that weird with strong fluorescence in a high color. There's a reason fluorescence affects the price so much. It's not just some trivial curiosity to be ignored!

What's weird is how so many people are OK with buying stones like this off websites, when they can have the stone inspected properly. Maybe you can be OK with a fluorescent stone, but buying one without expert guidance is foolish. You'll wind up with a stone that doesn't sparkle, and that defeats the purpose.

TL;DR Don't buy a fluorescent stone without expert help. There's a reason they're cheaper!

When it comes to yellow diamonds, it's all about the color. Look for something with no ugly overtones (like brownish or greenish, which are very common), in a hue that's pleasing to you. Be careful about only looking at yellow diamonds already set in rings - these rings will virtually always have a yellow gold cup under the stone to enhance the appearance of the color, so you don't know what's the stone's true color is.

Yes, cut is important in yellow diamonds - but the guiding are a bit different. After all, white diamonds are cut to enhance their "whiteness," and that's the last thing you want in a yellow diamond!

Have you looked at any stones in real life? Where are you located?

Some diamonds fluoresce in UV light - it's an inherent property of some diamonds. Generally, strong fluorescence (like what you're seeing here) is viewed as a negative thing, because it can reduce that diamond's overall brilliance (the blue light "drowns out" the rest of the rainbow).

The good news is that it's only a few small melee stones that are exhibiting this fluorescence. If it bothers you, they will be cheap and easy to replace. I'd guess your jeweler just didn't notice, and there was no malicious intent. Just mark the stones you want replaced with a sharpie, take your ring to the jeweler, and explain why. I'll bet he or she will be happy to do it, just to make you feel better.

I recommend the following process:

1. Set your budget.

1. Look at stones in real life if at all possible, and determine for yourself what the minimum color and clarity you can tolerate is.

1. Now that you know those two Cs, make sure you only focus on well cut stones (you can determine for yourself how good a cut is good enough for you, but this does matter!).

1. So, now you have 3 Cs defined (color, clarity, and cut), and your "5th C" as well (COST). You can now work backwards to see what you can afford in your 4th C - carat weight.

They don't have a very good reputation. Lots of stories of switching stones, shady business practices, etc. But I don't know for sure. Might be fine.

I can say for sure that their marketing practices are pretty shady. Are you sure they actually have the stone you are interested in? Sometimes people call them about a stone, and they say "Oh, we just sold it, but here's a different stone..."

As for the stone, why get a VVS? You can safely go MUCH lower in clarity, save some money, and never see the difference.

If you're concerned about the color, ask the jeweler if you can take a look at the stone outside, in daylight. Look at it both in direct sunlight, and in indirect sunlight (in the shade). If you're OK with the color there, you're all good.

Rose gold works in your favor here - the colored metal doesn't provide as much contrast against a darker stone, so the color is harder to detect.

The NYC DD is like taking a drink from a fire hose! It can definitely be overwhelming. There are high-pressure salespeople and dishonest players there, sure, but there are also some great people. So if you found someone you're comfortable with, and you're being treated fairly, great!

If you want to post specifics on any particular stone, I'm happy to offer feedback.

Please beware! There is no such thing as a cut grade for cushions! Those cut grades on BN are assigned by BN themselves (NOT a gem lab!), and are meaningless. Please pay no attention to those grades.

Note, this does NOT mean that all cushions are cut equally well. Cut is just as important in this shape as any other. But there is not universal consensus on the ideal cut.

What kind of stone are you looking for? What's your budget? Where are you located?

As you probably know, BN and JA don't actually own any diamonds. They're a listing service. They call dealers like me and solicit them to post diamonds on their sites, and if they sell, the BN/JA calls the owner of the stone to get it.

So, if they don't own the stones, and don't physically have them, how do they take pictures? There's a specialized machine that BN/JA requires their vendors to use which takes pictures automatically. But it's not foolproof! These machines can be adjusted, lights can be added or removed, and there's tons of editing that can be done. So each vendor can set the machine differently, and there's no way for you to know how each vendor set it up. So you can't compare any two stones, because color calibrations, focus, etc. can be so different.

For this reason, when I work with clients, I always send photos of several stones side by side in the same frame (photographed TOGETHER). That way, differences in size, color, brilliance, etc. are meaningful, because they were photographed in identical conditions. It's a lot more work for me than the BN/JA way, but I think it's worth doing.

Of course, it depends on the stone, but I'd say in general, you're OK with 80% of SI1 stones, 50% of SI2 stones, and maybe 5% of SI3 stones (if you find a REALLY nice one). Once you get to I1, you'll virtually always see something with the naked eye.

So, the best bet is to see the stone for yourself, and see if it's clean to YOUR eye. If you can't do that, work with a trusted expert who can examine the stone in person and act as your proxy.

Hi! IMHO the jubilee cut is a bad idea for most people. It is more vulnerable to chipping, and has reduced light return compared to a round brilliant. What's worse, it looks like sellers of these "special cut" stones are charging a premium for them. NOT OK. Non-standard cuts are EXTREMELY difficult to sell in the secondary market, so they should be sold at a significant discount, not a premium!

When people try to sell me these "special cuts," I always calculate what it would cost me to recut it to a round brilliant, and try to figure out what THAT stone would be worth, then offer that much. In other words, I'll buy them but for a LOT less than people often expect.

Bottom line - don't pay more for something that's inherently worth a lot less.

Si1 is usually OK, but not always. It's great that you can see the stone in real life. Examine it carefully in several different lighting conditions (direct sunlight, indoors, etc.). Then, if you don't see anything, ask the jeweler to show you the stone with a 10x loupe. You will likely be able to spot the inclusions with the loupe (which doesn't actually matter in real life, but you should see where they are). Then, once you know where the inclusions are, examine it with the naked eye again. Now that you know what to look for, can you see it? If not, get the stone!

Well, that's a short question with a long answer... But to start, the most important two numbers you should look at are total depth and table percentage. The total depth refers to the ratio of the height to the diameter of the diamond. Each shape has an ideal ratio. Too shallow, and the diamond looks windowy (aka fisheye). Too deep, and it looks dull and small. Table percentage refers to the relative size of the table (that big facet in the middle of the stone) to the diameter. Again, each shape has an ideal, and too small or too big can significantly affect light performance.

What kind of ring do you have in mind? I need to understand how much to budget for the setting to know how much we have left for the stone.

Yes, cut is very important - it's the cut that determines the sparkle of the diamond, which is really the whole point! The best way to go about this is to determine what minimum color and clarity are acceptable to you (best done by looking at stones), and then getting the biggest stone in your budget, without compromising cut.